MMH5.5 - Герои Меча и Магии 5.5
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Re: MMH5.5 - Герои Меча и Магии 5.5
Here is a summary of the questions along with answers.
1) Question: Chance to get skills are similar?
Yes they are nearly similar but this does not mean all heroes will be build the same because there are no skills which overpower other skills.
It is true that secondary skill efficiency will varry depending on the race and hero primary stats distribution but remember that skill choices also depend on what hero the enemy have picked.
It is better to sacrifice player vs monster secondary skills for player vs player ones.
Also imagine the skill tree the other way around: There are 12 skills divided in 4 groups where chance to get skill from that group is 18%-10%-5%-2%. Every game that you play with that hero you will always get the first 6 skills as they are favored by 80% chance.
Wouldn't that remove the human decision from the hero build?
2) Question: similar classes, especially Druid, Warlock, Elementalist, Flamekeeper, no difference between classes
Variation in Magic classes is a little less than the Might or Balanced classes because for dedicated spell classes:
- Starting primary points and %stats should be devided between spellpower and knowledge mostly and you cant have hero starting with 0 knowledge (unlike Might classes where heroes can start with 0 attack or defense).
- The pool of secondary skills is smaller for them as they do not have shatters or specialized might skills (war machines, combat).
What I have found out during playing the game is that the extra pinch of variation comes from the race specifics the hero is combined with.
The alternative upgrades help a lot in making different strategies that are aided in magic.
3) Question: Shatter skills for heroes of non-stronghold races is blasphemy.
I agree with you. Lorewise and feelwise for someone who has played the original game and especially scenarios is probably the biggest crap he can meet with in this mod. There is no reason to justify it.
The only thing I can do is to explain the thought process behind the change. You decide if it worths or not.
First, "Heroes V" core idea revolves around "Heroes 4" hero skill system. Each hero class has a unique starting skill which is considered his main strength.
(Note: There are 2 duplications in Haven and Necropolis factions - Knight and Death Knight, Heretic and Reaver, this are Undead versions of the living ones.)
Each hero within that class is considered unique by his specialization.
Primary skills are divided in two groups Might (attack and defense) and Magic (Spellpower and knowledge).
Secondary skills are divided in three groups Might, Magic and Utility (Luck, logistics, enlightenment). Some might skills are restricted to might class only, Some magic skills are for magic heroes only and utility skills are available to everyone.
Classes divide in 3 categories - Might, Balanced and Magic where each class primary stats gain rate is 75% for the favored primary stats group or 50/50% for the balanced class.
Some faction classes are a little tilted one side or the other depending on their lore.
Most of the heroes franchise games are one sided in choices once you know them. Heroes 3 players buy Craghack when they play castle or Orin if they play Academy just because the synergy between them and the races is so much better than any of the faction owned heroes.
This means if they are 2 players who do play perfect (I have heard Russian players are very good in H3) will hope on early game chance to be the winners at the end. Craig hack bonus damage is just enormous compared to most of the other heroes.
In MMH55 Heroes had to be balanced to some extent so first we had to balance the core Might vs Magic.
Primary stats change helped a lot, reducing attack and defense skills bonus from 5% to 3.33% slowed the pace of the battle so the casters actually had time to cast magic before the battle ended.
At this point when the magic is boosted enough to be a valid choice another issue arise that changes balance. Magic damage/effects cannot be countered. Attack can be countered with defense but spell damage is pure.
So what Magnomagus did is add the shatters into the pool of Might heroes secondary skill classes so they can counter Magic heroes and disrupt their game.
For example if you get a heavy Magic class with Destruction get sorcery, occultism, enlightenment, Luck + Caster's luck you can roll over everything. This is one of the easiest builds I propose to beginners that want to play magic.
When such Magic hero and Might hero fight the battle is over about half the time before the end because the Might hero relies mostly on his army. The smaller it gets the lesser the damage it do. On the other hand The magic hero damage potential is 100% throughout the whole battle so if both army are reduced proportionally it is the Magic hero who will win.
Thus the idea of Shatters is born. When you play PvP tavern scouting is essential to know what is the enemy primary hero and if it is magic class to figure out what magic does he has available.
You are correct that Magic classes are similar and have access to all Magic schools but each faction is bound to 2 schools and gets high tier spells only from them so this filters up a bit the Shatter choices you do.
It is not all good though, shatters help in PvP but slow down PvE. Also Shatters are not meant to be useful only in the end game this is why the perks you mentioned (Celestial shield, Storm wind).
For "Shatter Light", "protection from fire" is not the last one deliberately as Shatter Light is the weakest Shatter of all as the spells it negates do not cause direct impact to your army so we decided to give a little bonus for other school along the way. Also lorewise looks neat
I believe something can be said for Shatter dark and "Resistance" and "Protection" but as there is no lore for shatters in their current form we decided to make our own versions of them.
Tier 3 "Corrupted soil" somehow fits very well in Dark Magic for me. Something like dark energy aura that goes with the hero that makes the enemy suffer. A matter of personal choice I guess.
4) Question: Offense skill and perk tree changes.
The new perk distribution in general is meant to branch skills thematically. Offense include three branches - Tactics, Damage and Archery.
Fire arrows in Offense because there is no way how to put it in War machines and still be useful with tripple balista (which everyone likes).
With the current distribution balista can get even stronger than before as due to the new perk path the hero can get triple shot balista with 13 initiative and Fire arrows which scales very well even at month 6. Of course it require quite some skill points investment.
Lorewise it is ok as it fits the archery branch.
Offensive formation - the maximum bonus that dwarves can get of this skill is +6 and when the difference between stack sizes and tiers is great. As this skill is not working on other races we decided to give 50% of that to the other heroes.
If you calculate the difference it is near the same as the biggest difference is +6 but not for all the units and not all the time. Some of them may have 0 so the discrepancy is neglectable.
- "archery" and "Offense" increased to 25% - They were reduced on purpose because the pace of the battle was too fast. As you said in a previous post "Offense" and "Defense" scale globally on top of all bonuses -> ( (creature_damage)*modifiers*(attack - defense difference))*OFFENSE
- Defense is stronger to make the battle last longer. This is under review actually and it can be reduced.
5) Question: Defense skill and perk tree changes.
Defense perk tree is divided in 3 categories - tactics, physical damage reduction, Magical damage reduction.
Defensive formation - The same as "offensive formation" answer
Magic reduction branch - The second skill is "luck of the barbarian". It is actually a bugged skill in TOE which does what it says now.
[originaly it says - Luck of the Barbarian - The hero's army gets +5% Magic Proof for every point of Luck (only available to Barbarians). Provided by Magic Resistance.]
The total sum of reduction of both skills is 35% which is a lot! I had a game where I went full Shatter dark + damage reduction against full destruction hero and it went very well in my favor.
Also i got some easy battles against mages on the map
. It depends on what are you playing against and what do you need.
6) Question: Luck skill and perk tree changes.
Luck is divided in branches - Army luck, spell protection, spell utility.
- Critical strike name and bonus - Name is up to personal taste. It was magnomagus choice so nothing to say here. Luck was changed from 2x for good luck and 0.5x for bad luck to 1.66x and 0.6 to slow the pace of the game. The skill is just as strong as Offense for example.
Offense gives 20% damage. +3 luck is calculated to give roughly +20% damage to the whole army. (in 10 hits 3 will be with bonus damage. If damage is X. 7*x + 3*1.66*x =~ 11.98x which is 20% more than 10x.
Critical strike increase luck damage by 10% which increase the damage boost from 20% to 35%. You have 1 perk that gives the bonus of Advanced Luck.
- Curse of the Dead: -1 Luck - There are no final perks here. Just branches of perks. There are strong perks which are reached by getting weaker ones. Curse of dead is ok. It makes enemy Expert luck to Advanced. Meanwhile along the way the hero benefits from some nice magic resistances.
This is very good branch against any magician.
7) Question: Leadership skill and perk tree changes.
Leadership is Might class skill. It is a skill useful for main heroes but recruitment perk makes it one of the excellent choices for governors.
I call the branches - the pious leader (prayer + last stand), the warlord (middle one), the negotiator(Diplomacy + empathy).
Aura of speed vs Retribution - Leadership perk tree was made of what we could fit it. Retribution is a skill that lives on its own. All units have +2 default morale which retribution utilizes. Retribution gives damage so it goes to Offense.
Retribution in leadership will be way too powerful because it will overshadow the other perk choices. this skill path will give 25% bonus damage on its own without counting the morale effect!!!
The idea is the following. If a player wants to get that nice bonus he has to invest in both skills. He will get the damage but he will spend a lot of points thus making him not pick shatters or defense or both due to the build he do.
As I said there should be no best strategies in the game.
Lorewise, "Aura of speed" fits nice into Leadership. The hero inspires the army so much that the troops make an extra mile to be worthy. Leadership is all about inspiration
Last stand - I cannot say if it is strage or not. This skill must not be tier 1 in any occasion because it makes creature grinding very easy early on.
get a stack of archers and make 6 stacks with 2 units each. Surround the archers with you units and it is possible that your arrows end before the enemy melee units can reach you.
My opinion for the lore is that the hero is devoted to the Dragon of Light that it grants his troops a second chance. But as I said this is up to a personal taste.
Recruitment - This skill is both useless and useful. For the main hero it is the weak perk towards the very strong "Aura of speed". For the secondary heroes it is awesome skill as it makes your castles produce more army.
Furthermore if the hero is governor, recruitment synergies with the governor creature bonus per week. Also there is an artifact that doubles the recruitment bonus.
Actually this is a part of the economics handling in the game.
Governor reference ->
8) Question: Sorcery is too strong 1.6 times often casting
Check the spell book and mana costs ask yourself what mana pool the hero needs to endure the whole battle. I have had fights where hero with 200 mana losses the battle due to being out of it.
Knowledge is just as important as spellpower. This is why there are a lot of knowledge perks here and there. If you want mana, you go and get them.
9) Question: Logistics does not have skills for battle.
This is utility skill. It is not meant to be useful in battle. Logistics win games before the battle itself. It allows you to get more stuff before the opponent - more castles, fight more creatures, gain more experience.
It actually allows you to fight the opponent player before he wants to fight with you. MMH55 have PEST mod integrated and everyone I have played (or I know that play) competitive uses it.
This allows 2 players to act their turn at the same time while their heroes occupy the same area. Logistics is really helpful here. It gives you the mobility to chase or run.
Scouting is very important in that matter as it help you see the enemy before he sees you.
The stealing of artifacts from the map is not possible due to using the 3.0 build and some of the 3.1 LUA commands does not exist.
FYI: Globaly (artifacts, skills, spells) initiative bonuses are very heavily reduced(or removed on some place) as they multiply all other bonuses (primary skills, offense, defense, it helps eat retaliations etc..) thus for example 10% bonus initiative provide is way higher than it looks.
10) Question: Combat skill and perk tree changes.
Combat - except the retaliation bonus that was part of the skill before this is completely new tree as a look and feel to the player. The idea of this tree is the make the Hero useful in combat as he was the 8th unit.
- Armor spikes - true this was made to fill in a gap.
FYI each perk price is about 2 primary stat skills. Wherever a perk feels stronger it has a weaker one along thew way.
If we find something better it will be changed.
- Preparation - "Combat" gives retaliation bonus and "Preparation" gives the units the ability to retaliate before the enemy hit. Defense or combat ? actually the same as both provide synergy but
unlike "Combat", "Defense" provides much higher synergy as it helps units survive longer thus retaliate more for way more damage. This make the perk cost way more than 2 primary skill points.
This way it is put in Combat under tier 3. The player now needs to invest 6 points in Combat, 5 points in Defense to get maximum efficiency. This renders him to spent a lot of points just for defense and not for other skills ( Magic, protection from magic, Offense, Utility skills etc..)
Even with that penalty it was still strong so this is why it has -2 attack nerf.
11) Question: Occultism - Distract can be buffed to 20%?
the whole "Distract" branch is very strong (you mentioned it at question 2)) as it favors very potent spell damage/efficiency(+50% damage of spells, Bonus spellpower - a total of +10 for summoning and +8 for destruction). It will be unwise to make it even stronger. If you go as high as there you either can get distract or some mana recovery perks, we have to keep the choice fair.
12) Question: Gating is weak, it summons too less troops?
This was very very heavily tested by a couple of players both against PvE and PvP. I mean full blown games on big maps from start to end and against different faction and classes.
Original idea of gating was very bad as everything seemed very static and fumble. You gate and once you do it the gated units appear and just wait and do nothing for some time. It does not feel like offensive race.
Also gating in heroes V was very strong if the opponent just sits and wait for the enemy to gate everything. Probably nobody really noticed it because it compensated to some extent the fact the Inferno was the weakest race.
It had terrible early game and just one good hero -> Deleb.
this is a list of all changes in the mod
. Just take a look at Inferno changes they are all buffs.
Now gated units will act after 1.25 turns after gating compared to 2 turns beforehand. This is almost 40% increased acting time. This is 40% less time for the enemy to kill the units.
Also the units act immediately after they are summoned which gives even less time for reaction to the enemy. This also gives the ability to use the summons to get a lot of retaliations for free (because they are summons).
I have tested it and can say it is still very very viable strategy especially if mixed with some skills. Also the new tier 3 is very nice as it fits perfectly the chaotic nature.
Basically summons are cut exactly in half. All other bonuses from perks or bases follow the same path so proportionally it is the same strength buff to the skill.
13) Question: Skill "Necromancy" and perk tree changes:
- "Emissary of Darkness" is a stub and not really relevant to Necromancy - You are correct it was a stub we need to fill in. Before that we used the "Haunted mines" but it was very abusable in multiplayer game.
If we can find anything better it will be replaced.
14) Question: Skill "Artificier" and perk tree changes:
- "Suppression of Light" after "Magic Mirror" and "Academic Award" after "The Absorption of the Artifact" look nontematic - Same answer as for "Emissary of Darkness"
- "Power over Machines" better goes to the branch with golems - Actually this is really neat idea. Not sure why Magnomagus did it this way. I will suggest it for the next update.
15) Runelore skill and perk tree changes:
- Skill "Runic Knowledge" (+2 knowledge and free leve up) should be t3 for a possible abuse later - Actually this is why it is not tier 3. This skill is meant for heroes who need knowledge for a longer spell casting during combat. All perks should cost about 2 primary skill points and it already gives 2 knowledge. But as knowledge is a little less in power there is a bonus of level up to it. It is not meant for abuse.
You can try though but it is possible to mess your build. Also in MMH55 there will not be any way to unlearn skills. The Memory mentor will be replaced in the next mod iteration with a new special building.
16) "Shouting" skill and perk tree changes:
- Perk "Tribal teachings" (+2 and level up) is unmatched here - this is one of the skills that is meant to get for knowledge. "Shouting" is the only tree that relates to casting any magic for barbarians, they get just 10% of the time knowledge so it is good to have multiple choices for knowledge if you want to go that way.
Check the spellbook the Official manual. There are a lot of mana cost changes in the "Shout" department as well.
Most of the new heroes were taken from Heroes 6 and heroes 4. We are not designers so we cant make anything from scratch so we did our best. I know that to the keen eye it look really ugly but this is as best as we could push it for the smallest effort.
We are accepting anyone who want to contribute especially with design where we lack people and knowledge (credit to Xuxo, TheGryphn and Belizarius that gave a lot of their time). The ideal we follow is to make the game as close to an official expansion.
I believe you have a good eye for graphics and I am sorry it does not feel right.
Duplicate hero specializations are on a couple occasions and they relate heroes in different classes and factions, primary skills gain and starting skills.
Spellbook is too large ? - I am not sure if we have done such change (or at least I dont know of such one). can you point the time in the video so I can take a look?
All the effort thrown in this mod is enormous and done by a lot of people (probably around 50 contributers in different areas both from heroescommunity and heroesworld).
The mod is still in development but some things take a lot of time. Probably not so much if we do it on a full day basis but we all do it as a side thing in our free time which is scarce.
Thank you for your questions they were very on point. I enjoyed answering them and hope that I have provided enough information. Let me know if anything is not clear enough or want to elaborate further.
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